Llama Hauling Information
Most of my llamas sell around the country and require a hauler to get them to the new owners. Over the years I have used a few specific haulers with excellent results. I have also had friends that would haul them to national shows etc. for pick up. In early June 2018, I helped friends look for a ride for a well trained 4-H llama gelding. The gelding was in Southern California and we were trying to get him to Northwestern Washington. I posted to a Facebook livestock haulers page and immediately got a private message, this was mistake number one. We went back and forth about details and finally settled on a price for the haul.
I now know there were red flags. I was naive because of all the great experiences I have had with awesome haulers. It never occurred to me that someone would lie and not put the animal first. They would deliver door to door, the animal would have a huge box stall, with my choice of hays and be in NW Washington in two days. The man was just a sweet grandfatherly type who was doing this for his son's business. It went on and on. What ensued over a period of nearly 16 days was pretty horrifying.
Mistake number two, It started with not hearing anything after the details were agreed upon. By this time the little girl knew she was getting her llama and disappointing a 7 year old wasn't a very nice option. When we finally heard from the hauler, he was back on schedule and would be there for pick-up in a day or two. He dropped off the face of the earth again during the time when he was to arrive and pick up the animal. The seller was left waiting at 1:00a.m. wondering where the guy was? He finally arrived the next day and loaded our animal. In reflection, I wish we had pulled the plug on him at that point!
Mistake number three, within a day or two, he was broken down with transmission issues in Redding, California. Everyday it was almost fixed. Driving the 18-22 hours down there was not an option. Keep in mind too that the heat at this point was in full swing and temperatures were around 100-110 most days. The hauler kept saying he was parked in the shade, the animal was being kept comfortable and clean, etc.. Had we known that this would last that long, we would have just headed down right away or made arrangements for a local llama person to go get him. Finally, he was up and running again about 14 days later.
Mistake number four, the family getting him had a vacation planned and this had gone on so long, I had to take possession of him. That was no problem as he would be driven north to where I live. On the day he was to arrive, we got a text at 11a.m. and they were crossing into Washington from Oregon. This is about a 4-6 hour drive depending on traffic, so we expected him early evening. Finally, at 11:00p.m. (there was no communication in between) we got a frantic text that he would be arriving in the next hour or so and to make sure we had cash as he was almost out of gas. After that we got a string of strange and frantic texts that were just as bizarre. My husband ended up going to meet the man with two friends at 1:00a.m.. We paid him just to get the llama away from him. I now know he wanted cash so nobody could track his bad business practices and because he was afraid we wouldn't pay after his sketchy service. He was obviously no stranger to angry customers.
By the next morning, it was obvious the llama was not eating, defecating or drinking. We called our competent camelid veterinarian and they determined the animal was severely dehydrated and very stressed. Keep in mind this was a very mellow llama who had traveled around the country and been to many shows. It had been pushed beyond normal limits and this was the result. The vet gave him two IV bags and we were put on a schedule of giving more of it ourselves. By the next day, the vet had to come out to draw blood as the animal was still not eating, drinking much and hardly defecating. What ensued for three weeks was a game of trying to get the llama to eat anything (hay, alfalfa, grain, etc.) and watching him. We set up panels in our yard on green lush grass in an effort to entice him to eat and that did not work. He finally after a few weeks would nibble on a bit of grain and eat leaves. It was pretty stressful for him and for us. The thought of telling the young girl the llama may not make it (who waited for 2 years to get the right llama) was a pretty big burden. On the second day after he arrived, the father of the girl called the hauler and told him about the animals condition. The hauler yelled that the llama had food and water in front of him and he was fine. Even adding that the person that picked him up had done the damage (that person would have been my husband ten minutes from our farm) and hung up on him. I texted him and told him that the animal was not eating and we had called the veterinarian. He blamed it on my husband as well and said the same thing.
Fast forward to present. The llama took almost a month and a half to gain back the 30-35lbs he lost on the trip. We are hoping that no long term damage was done. In an effort to help him heal, he has been on restricted duty and the young girl used a different llama for some of the events/fairs she attended. Time will tell if this guy is going to be okay. The vet bills far exceed the hauling payment. I am a firm believer in, "It is only a mistake if you don't learn something from it." I did learn a lot from this experience and I want others to avoid shady and illegal livestock haulers.
I began to research the hauler. With a simple Facebook/internet search, I instantly had a post pop up with video footage of a bad horse haul. It also had comments from numerous other people who had bad business dealings with Mr. Wonderful. I quickly learned that this guy was an illegal hauler that did not have the important things in place like the reputable haulers! Within short order after posting about our experience, I had numerous people on a Facebook livestock hauling list post about their horrible encounters with this illegal hauler and others with similar practices. I also was able to piece together these illegal haulers tricks, practices and what had really happened during that time. Some of the illegal haulers will squat in an area until they get enough animals for a load. Hence, why our llama sat in the heat in California for so long. They will also take the animals to another place until they get a full load. Many of them do not have a proper facility for this and the owners have no idea.
Below are things that you should know if you are going to hire a hauler.
1. You should have a hauling contract (or Bill of lading). It should include the quoted price, pick-up and arrival time, what they guarantee, how long they drive, what their care regime is, requirements for travel state health certificates and more. When/how often will you be getting updates on your animal? These haulers are able to get around being held accountable by not following through as there is no contract. This man would only take cash or Walmart money transfers too to help prevent a paperwork trail. He also never asked for a health certificate, "He didn't require this." As I have never shipped a llama without one, we had one already made up. Without a contract, we were unable to hold this hauler accountable as the police deem this a "Civil matter." As an illegal hauler, these people know all the loopholes.
2. They should have proof of insurance, a DOT number, Mc Authority and proof they are compliant with the various organizations. For insurance they should carry liability, cargo, etc.. If they are not compliant, you are taking a chance that your livestock may be impounded and stuck in a livestock yard.
3. Ask for pictures of their hauling equipment inside and out. If a different rig shows up, do not load them! Legal haulers have their business name, DOT #, etc. on the side of their tow vehicle. The illegal hauler had a pathetic old truck with a long stock trailer that was fairly open on the sides. It was old, not very professional or safe looking. He had horses riding side by side with no divider in the video I saw online.
4. Get lots of references, do not just take one. In this case, this guy had someone that posted him on their website. He also had family (Son, daughter, girlfriend, boyfriend, wife, etc.) all with various last names that he would have watch for postings from people like me looking for a haul. He had been kicked off the various sites and previous angry customers would warn unsuspecting buyers about him. Talk to them in person as well. It is really easy to say anything over a text or email!
5. Do not pay in full up front. There are incidences of the hauler not delivering after being paid. The guy who did our bad haul would get people to pay via Walmart money transfer and then not provide the service he had agreed to. I found out one of the people that had goats on our haul had to drive four of the five hours to get her goat with no refund of the service not being completed.
6. You get what you pay for. When the well known shippers charge more and the other hauler comes in cheaper and promises the moon, don't do it! Legal haulers spend a lot on good equipment and keep it running. They also know livestock and how to care for them while being transported. Professionals will make sure your animal arrives in good shape on the other end. They also guarantee their work. Consider making a phone call to large livestock breeding facilities of your species and ask who they use for their cross country hauls.
You can look up to see legal DOT # here:
https://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/CompanySnapshot.aspx
To find out Interstate Animal Movement: Requirements www.interstatelivestock.com
Livestock Hauling & Transport Facebook list is a good place to inquire about, find and learn about haulers. They also maintain a Blackhat Transport list of the problem illegal haulers.
Facebook has a list called Livestock Transport - The BEST and the WORST
National Horse Carriers has great information about illegal: haulers http://nationalhorsecarriers.com/education/recognizing-an-illegal-hauler/
Please learn from this experience and spread the word. The illegal haulers market is more common than most livestock owners realize. In hindsight, we were incredibly naive and this could have been prevented had we known the signs.
Good luck and happy hauling!
I now know there were red flags. I was naive because of all the great experiences I have had with awesome haulers. It never occurred to me that someone would lie and not put the animal first. They would deliver door to door, the animal would have a huge box stall, with my choice of hays and be in NW Washington in two days. The man was just a sweet grandfatherly type who was doing this for his son's business. It went on and on. What ensued over a period of nearly 16 days was pretty horrifying.
Mistake number two, It started with not hearing anything after the details were agreed upon. By this time the little girl knew she was getting her llama and disappointing a 7 year old wasn't a very nice option. When we finally heard from the hauler, he was back on schedule and would be there for pick-up in a day or two. He dropped off the face of the earth again during the time when he was to arrive and pick up the animal. The seller was left waiting at 1:00a.m. wondering where the guy was? He finally arrived the next day and loaded our animal. In reflection, I wish we had pulled the plug on him at that point!
Mistake number three, within a day or two, he was broken down with transmission issues in Redding, California. Everyday it was almost fixed. Driving the 18-22 hours down there was not an option. Keep in mind too that the heat at this point was in full swing and temperatures were around 100-110 most days. The hauler kept saying he was parked in the shade, the animal was being kept comfortable and clean, etc.. Had we known that this would last that long, we would have just headed down right away or made arrangements for a local llama person to go get him. Finally, he was up and running again about 14 days later.
Mistake number four, the family getting him had a vacation planned and this had gone on so long, I had to take possession of him. That was no problem as he would be driven north to where I live. On the day he was to arrive, we got a text at 11a.m. and they were crossing into Washington from Oregon. This is about a 4-6 hour drive depending on traffic, so we expected him early evening. Finally, at 11:00p.m. (there was no communication in between) we got a frantic text that he would be arriving in the next hour or so and to make sure we had cash as he was almost out of gas. After that we got a string of strange and frantic texts that were just as bizarre. My husband ended up going to meet the man with two friends at 1:00a.m.. We paid him just to get the llama away from him. I now know he wanted cash so nobody could track his bad business practices and because he was afraid we wouldn't pay after his sketchy service. He was obviously no stranger to angry customers.
By the next morning, it was obvious the llama was not eating, defecating or drinking. We called our competent camelid veterinarian and they determined the animal was severely dehydrated and very stressed. Keep in mind this was a very mellow llama who had traveled around the country and been to many shows. It had been pushed beyond normal limits and this was the result. The vet gave him two IV bags and we were put on a schedule of giving more of it ourselves. By the next day, the vet had to come out to draw blood as the animal was still not eating, drinking much and hardly defecating. What ensued for three weeks was a game of trying to get the llama to eat anything (hay, alfalfa, grain, etc.) and watching him. We set up panels in our yard on green lush grass in an effort to entice him to eat and that did not work. He finally after a few weeks would nibble on a bit of grain and eat leaves. It was pretty stressful for him and for us. The thought of telling the young girl the llama may not make it (who waited for 2 years to get the right llama) was a pretty big burden. On the second day after he arrived, the father of the girl called the hauler and told him about the animals condition. The hauler yelled that the llama had food and water in front of him and he was fine. Even adding that the person that picked him up had done the damage (that person would have been my husband ten minutes from our farm) and hung up on him. I texted him and told him that the animal was not eating and we had called the veterinarian. He blamed it on my husband as well and said the same thing.
Fast forward to present. The llama took almost a month and a half to gain back the 30-35lbs he lost on the trip. We are hoping that no long term damage was done. In an effort to help him heal, he has been on restricted duty and the young girl used a different llama for some of the events/fairs she attended. Time will tell if this guy is going to be okay. The vet bills far exceed the hauling payment. I am a firm believer in, "It is only a mistake if you don't learn something from it." I did learn a lot from this experience and I want others to avoid shady and illegal livestock haulers.
I began to research the hauler. With a simple Facebook/internet search, I instantly had a post pop up with video footage of a bad horse haul. It also had comments from numerous other people who had bad business dealings with Mr. Wonderful. I quickly learned that this guy was an illegal hauler that did not have the important things in place like the reputable haulers! Within short order after posting about our experience, I had numerous people on a Facebook livestock hauling list post about their horrible encounters with this illegal hauler and others with similar practices. I also was able to piece together these illegal haulers tricks, practices and what had really happened during that time. Some of the illegal haulers will squat in an area until they get enough animals for a load. Hence, why our llama sat in the heat in California for so long. They will also take the animals to another place until they get a full load. Many of them do not have a proper facility for this and the owners have no idea.
Below are things that you should know if you are going to hire a hauler.
1. You should have a hauling contract (or Bill of lading). It should include the quoted price, pick-up and arrival time, what they guarantee, how long they drive, what their care regime is, requirements for travel state health certificates and more. When/how often will you be getting updates on your animal? These haulers are able to get around being held accountable by not following through as there is no contract. This man would only take cash or Walmart money transfers too to help prevent a paperwork trail. He also never asked for a health certificate, "He didn't require this." As I have never shipped a llama without one, we had one already made up. Without a contract, we were unable to hold this hauler accountable as the police deem this a "Civil matter." As an illegal hauler, these people know all the loopholes.
2. They should have proof of insurance, a DOT number, Mc Authority and proof they are compliant with the various organizations. For insurance they should carry liability, cargo, etc.. If they are not compliant, you are taking a chance that your livestock may be impounded and stuck in a livestock yard.
3. Ask for pictures of their hauling equipment inside and out. If a different rig shows up, do not load them! Legal haulers have their business name, DOT #, etc. on the side of their tow vehicle. The illegal hauler had a pathetic old truck with a long stock trailer that was fairly open on the sides. It was old, not very professional or safe looking. He had horses riding side by side with no divider in the video I saw online.
4. Get lots of references, do not just take one. In this case, this guy had someone that posted him on their website. He also had family (Son, daughter, girlfriend, boyfriend, wife, etc.) all with various last names that he would have watch for postings from people like me looking for a haul. He had been kicked off the various sites and previous angry customers would warn unsuspecting buyers about him. Talk to them in person as well. It is really easy to say anything over a text or email!
5. Do not pay in full up front. There are incidences of the hauler not delivering after being paid. The guy who did our bad haul would get people to pay via Walmart money transfer and then not provide the service he had agreed to. I found out one of the people that had goats on our haul had to drive four of the five hours to get her goat with no refund of the service not being completed.
6. You get what you pay for. When the well known shippers charge more and the other hauler comes in cheaper and promises the moon, don't do it! Legal haulers spend a lot on good equipment and keep it running. They also know livestock and how to care for them while being transported. Professionals will make sure your animal arrives in good shape on the other end. They also guarantee their work. Consider making a phone call to large livestock breeding facilities of your species and ask who they use for their cross country hauls.
You can look up to see legal DOT # here:
https://safer.fmcsa.dot.gov/CompanySnapshot.aspx
To find out Interstate Animal Movement: Requirements www.interstatelivestock.com
Livestock Hauling & Transport Facebook list is a good place to inquire about, find and learn about haulers. They also maintain a Blackhat Transport list of the problem illegal haulers.
Facebook has a list called Livestock Transport - The BEST and the WORST
National Horse Carriers has great information about illegal: haulers http://nationalhorsecarriers.com/education/recognizing-an-illegal-hauler/
Please learn from this experience and spread the word. The illegal haulers market is more common than most livestock owners realize. In hindsight, we were incredibly naive and this could have been prevented had we known the signs.
Good luck and happy hauling!